1/16 FO M51 Tamiya HVSS Supersherman

Ga naar beneden

1/16 FO M51 Tamiya HVSS Supersherman

Bericht van karel47 op vr 12 jul 2013 - 17:30

kocht deze ook van mn ver familielid , wederom voor 400 euro en toch is het koopje, word in de shops 650 euro en meer voor gevraagd

op twee dagen tijd twee topkits van tamiya gekocht besparing meer dan 600 eurokes ... zoiets kan je niet laten liggen he , je krijgt nooit meer terug , a once in a lifetime oppertunity !!!

http://www.tamiya.com/english/products/56032super_sherman/

★This is a 1/16 scale R/C assembly kit of the M51 “Super Sherman” and features a superb realistic finish. ★The dynamic form of the tank, including the long main gun fitted with a massive muzzle brake and the extended turret, has been reproduced in rich detail. ★The tank features a realistic tank maneuverability and recoil effects. ★4-channel transmitter & receiver, battery pack, and charger sold separately.

Tamiya 1/16 Super Sherman Tank Kit. Tamiya has expertly recreated the M-51 Super Shermans in this 1/16 scale Super Sherman Tank Kit.



Features:
1/16 R/C assembly kit of the Super Sherman.
Includes DMD Control Unit (T-08) and DMD Multi-Function Unit (MF-07) which enable turret rotation, gun elevation/depression, and realistic sound and vibration actions.
Exciting sound effects accompany engine operations, turret rotation, gun barrel elevation and depression.
Metal parts such as lower hull, suspension arms, and drive sprockets included.
Aluminum gun barrel.
The gun barrel features recoil effects.
Front-mounted, pre-assembled gearboxes with type 380 motors.
Requires 4-channel transmitter with self-neutral function (Futaba Attack T4VWD is recommended), battery pack, and eight AA batteries for transmitter.
Install separately available Battle System (Item 53447) to enjoy 1 vs 1 or team tank battles with other Tamiya 1/16 R/C tanks.
During the 1960's, the Israeli Ordnance Corps upgraded their aging Sherman Tanks by equipping it with the powerful French 105mm CN-105-F1 tank gun. The gun barrel length was shortened by 1.5m to improve overall greater balance and a muzzle brake was also fitted to minimize the recoil effect.

In 1967, during the Six-Day War, the Super Sherman found itself fighting against newer T-54/55 tanks as well as JS-3 tanks from Egyptian, Iraqi, and Syrian armies. The M-51's 105mm gun could take on these adversaries by using HEAT ammunition. After the war, these M-51 Super Shermans continued to serve with distinction until they were finally retired in the early 1980s.


de oude sherman had geen recoil, deze wel ... ga is op zoek naar de mogelijkheden, is deze alleen isrealisch te maken of niet ...


Laatst aangepast door karel47 op vr 12 jul 2013 - 17:32; in totaal 2 keer bewerkt

_________________
avatar
karel47
Regular
Regular

Aantal berichten : 726
Woonplaats : ninove belgium

Terug naar boven Ga naar beneden

Re: 1/16 FO M51 Tamiya HVSS Supersherman

Bericht van karel47 op vr 12 jul 2013 - 17:31

de boxart van tamiya is altijd al een pareltje geweest !!!






details






en de befaamde dmd en mf modules !!!


_________________
avatar
karel47
Regular
Regular

Aantal berichten : 726
Woonplaats : ninove belgium

Terug naar boven Ga naar beneden

Re: 1/16 FO M51 Tamiya HVSS Supersherman

Bericht van karel47 op vr 12 jul 2013 - 17:39

tja sommige mensen he , zie hem maximaal ene keer per jaar en das me nieuwjaar, nu contacteerde hij me zelf  ... zn prijzen vielen erg mee en ja dus
had net wilco's leopard overgehouden ... dus twee exemplaren he, belofte moeten breken he en 2 nieuwe superaanwinsten  :$  Smile

bedankt gerrit  :cool

... maar was dit helemaal niet van plan ... vrouwke overtuigd  Very Happy  Smile  Smile

beetje uitleg bij de M51, staat er allemaal klaar en duidelijk !



Shocked Rolling Eyes   :cool  Very Happy  Smile wie kent er nu géén japans he gasten  Shocked  Shocked  Shocked

_________________
avatar
karel47
Regular
Regular

Aantal berichten : 726
Woonplaats : ninove belgium

Terug naar boven Ga naar beneden

Re: 1/16 FO M51 Tamiya HVSS Supersherman

Bericht van karel47 op vr 12 jul 2013 - 17:41

http://www.scribd.com/doc/44229659/Sherman-Tanks-in-Israeli-Service-From-www-jgokey-com

bedankt gerrit voor de link , er wordt op vele forum geopperd dat tamiya een groffe fout maakte met hun M51 ... jouw foto's bewijzen het tegendeel er van, er waren M4A3 carosseries in de M51
alhoewel hier met VVSS boogies zullen er ook wel enkele met de HVSS boogies geproduceerd zijn ... moet ik nog zien uit te zoeken ...







_________________
avatar
karel47
Regular
Regular

Aantal berichten : 726
Woonplaats : ninove belgium

Terug naar boven Ga naar beneden

Re: 1/16 FO M51 Tamiya HVSS Supersherman

Bericht van karel47 op vr 12 jul 2013 - 17:43

de tamiya carrosserie is niet juist volgens de meeste forums en foto's , vanaf de HVSS schijnt alleen nog de gegoten afgeronde romp van de M4A1 Sherman gebruikt te zijn ... niks is minder waar op de link die je hier vind heb ik ook de foto's gevonden met de gebruikte tamiya M4A3 of M4A4 romp

http://idf-armor.blogspot.be/2008/12/ka ... i-war.html

M50
M50
in de modelbouw wereld en er buiten worden deze sherman veel M51 Supersherman genoemd, de israelisch gebruikten de term M51 bijna nooit en noemden ze meestal  M50's ... dus waarom iedereen er in vastbijt op die M51 benaming is voor velen een raadsel : The only tank model designated Super Sherman by the IDF was M4A1 with 76 mm M1 gun and HVSS suspension, which was named Super Sherman M-1
M50
M50
M51 & M50
hier staan ze netjes naast één, is voor eens en altijd uit de wereld geholpen ...  Shocked  Very Happy  :cool  Smile  Rolling Eyes

History

In 1953, an Israeli delegation visited France to examine the new AMX 13 light tank. The tank was armed with the high-velocity 75 mm gun CN 75-50, a development of the German 7.5 cm KwK 42 L/70 (used in the Panther tank). While the gun was satisfactory, the armor of the French tank was considered too light. Eventually, Israel did purchase the AMX 13, however in a parallel development it was decided to graft the powerful French gun onto the available, familiar and better-armored hull of the American M4 Sherman, the standard tank of the IDF armored units in the early 1950s.[1]
The project started in 1954, and in 1955 a prototype turret was sent from France to Israel.[2] In March 1956 Israeli Ordnance Corps facilities started to convert tanks, using guns received from France.[3] The gun was known in Israel as the M-50 and as a result the upgunned Sherman was designated Sherman M-50.[2] The M-50 was similar to the Sherman Firefly in that it had the original turret of the "old" type (as used by the 75 mm gun M3 armed Shermans), which was fitted with a large counterweight at the rear end.
The first 50 units were based on M4A4 hulls, had a Continental R-975 gasoline engine and VVSS suspension. However, the increased weight of the vehicle combined with narrow tracks led to poor off-road mobility. It was also putting too much strain on the engine, resulting in frequent mechanical failures. Consequently, for the rest of the conversions, hulls fitted with HVSS suspension and Cummins V-8 460 horsepower (340 kW) diesel engine were adopted.[4] These subvariants were sometimes referred to as the M-50 Continental and M-50 Cummins. Diesel engines were also preferred since diesel fuel is less flammable than gasoline, which factors into battlefield survivability.[5] In total, about 300 M-50s were built by 1964 (though it's possible that this number includes 120 155 mm self-propelled guns on Sherman chassis, also designated M-50).[6]
The same gun was also fitted to a number of M10 Wolverine tank destroyers.[7]
In the 1960s, 180 Sherman tanks received the even more powerful French 105 mm Modèle F1 gun. The gun was reduced from 56 caliber to 44 and was equipped with a muzzle brake; ammunition was altered to use a smaller cartridge. In Israel the gun was designated M-51 and the tank the Sherman M-51. M4A1 hulls and "new" turrets (from 76 mm armed Shermans) were used for the conversion. All tanks were fitted with Cummins diesel engines and HVSS suspension. The tank was displayed to the public for the first time during the Independence Day ceremony in 1965.[8]
Abroad the M-50 was known as Super Sherman (the "Continental" variant as Mark I and the "Cummins" variant as Mark II) and the M-51 as either Super Sherman or Isherman (i.e. Israeli Sherman). These designation were never used in Israel. The only tank model designated Super Sherman by the IDF was M4A1 with 76 mm M1 gun and HVSS suspension, which was named Super Sherman M-1.[9]

_________________
avatar
karel47
Regular
Regular

Aantal berichten : 726
Woonplaats : ninove belgium

Terug naar boven Ga naar beneden

Re: 1/16 FO M51 Tamiya HVSS Supersherman

Bericht van karel47 op vr 12 jul 2013 - 17:49

Service history

Captured Egyptian M4A4 with FL-10 Turret.
The first 25 M-50s were finished just in time for the Operation Kadesh in the Sinai against the Egyptian Army[10] (which also employed its own up-gunned version of the M-4, fitted with the AMX-13 turret, making it equal to the M-50 in firepower).
In 1964, Israel started to divert water from the Sea of Galilee to the Negev Desert for agricultural purposes. The Arab nations were in uproar, and Syria began a project to divert water into Jordan (the Headwater Diversion Plan). Maj General Israel Tal had trained Israeli tank gunners to shoot beyond 1,500 metres (1,600 yd) and, on March 6, 1965, an M-50, commanded by Tal, engaged a Syrian recoilless rifle that had killed an Israeli tractor driver; Tal personally destroyed the recoilless rifle at long range. A few days later, General Tal, with an M-50 and a Centurion Mk III tank, was waiting for a chance to fire upon the Syrian water diverting project. When Syrian gunners fired on a border patrol, Tal's M50 and the Centurion fired on eight tractors 2,000 metres (2,200 yd) away, and destroyed them all in two minutes with 10 shots - Tal destroyed 5 tractors with his M-50's 75 mm gun, and the Centurion destroyed the remainder.[11]
Both the M-50 and M-51 saw combat in the Six-Day War that left the Golan Heights, the West Bank and the Sinai peninsula in Israeli hands, often fighting Soviet World War II-era armor like the T-34-85 (for example at the Battle of Abu-Ageila). Both were also employed in the 1973 Yom Kippur War alongside and against much more modern tanks. The use of such seemingly obsolete tanks was necessary given the desperate nature of the fighting.
In combat against the Arab armies, the M-51 proved itself capable of fighting newer, heavier tanks like the Soviet-built T-54/55/T-62. The M-51's 105 mm gun could penetrate these adversaries using HEAT ammunition. The M-51 served well during its time, and is regarded as an excellent example of how an obsolete tank (the Sherman) can be upgraded beyond the limits of its original capabilities.[12]
M-50 Continentals were retired by 1972. The M-50 Cummins and M-51 were gradually phased out in late 1970s - early 1980s. During the Lebanese Civil War, a total of 75 M-50s were given to the Israeli-supported Christian militias – Kataeb Regulatory Forces (19), Tigers Militia (20), Guardians of the Cedars (1), the Lebanese Forces (40), and the South Lebanon Army (35) – in 1976; two tanks were later captured by the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO), which they employed in the defense of West Beirut during the June 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon.[13]
Many tanks were also sold to Chile, and some of those were fitted with 60 mm HVMS gun and are often referred to as M-60. This variant was never used by the IDF.[14]
The few M-51s that Israel retained were converted into engineer vehicles and self-propelled artillery

_________________
avatar
karel47
Regular
Regular

Aantal berichten : 726
Woonplaats : ninove belgium

Terug naar boven Ga naar beneden

Re: 1/16 FO M51 Tamiya HVSS Supersherman

Bericht van karel47 op vr 12 jul 2013 - 17:52

kreeg bericht van iemand van rc universe uit de tanksectie, kent veel van de IDF shermans , er zitten véél fouten op deze sherman ... daar is wat aan te doen he gasten ...

Karel, The Tamiya M-51 may sound and run better, but there are many gross errors in Tamiys's model. First off, The track towage is wrong; earlier 51s had some spare track on the sponson by the driver and BOG, later on the turret , NOT both...there should be no travel lock mounts on the bow, but Tamiya failed to remove them, as well as totally ignoring the huge gun travel lock that dominates the engine deck on the real M-51. . There is no cover on the horn bracket and the sponson stowage boxes are wrong as is the color of the oil cans...they should be black. All M-51s are not alike as they were converted as they came in, with varying sizes in some stowage boxes, but 51s had two boxes on the either side. A very few initial 51s were made using the 105 howitzer turret, which required the addition of a large mantlet extension box, but the great majority used a highly modifed T-23 turret due to needed space for the modified D 1504 L-44 105mm. No M-51s were made on VVSS chasis. The added weight of the 105mm gun/ammo and modified turret was too much for the VVSS. Most of the photos you show are M-50s, which is a totally different tank, with the CN 75-50 75mm gun and using both HHVS and VVSS systems. How can you compare the M-51 by showing a different tank? In 1960, Cummins dielsels were received and most by 1965 M-50s were upgraded and the work was concentrated on M-51s. By 1973, most all M-51s had the new Cummins diesel except for a couple reserve units which still had the radial engine. Some 51s had the welded A3 or A4 hull but most were converted using the A1 chassis. A further error was a sales ploy by Tamiya of naming the M-51 "Super Sherman". The only Super Sherman in israel was the M-1 M-4A1 76mm (dagem aleph 76) with either suspension system. Tamiya's M-51 dies not represent any particular M-51....even a prototype but is a mix of ideas thrown in to modify the old 105 Sherman to offer a different tank. Trying to figure the IDF armor history is a vacation into frustration. In many cases due to wars etc, no accurate records were kept and this really hurts where you try to tie down a particular tank by it make and stowage. Tamiya did not add the manadtory black metal ID plates on the bow rear and sides which aids in proper ID.

The best book on Israeli armor is Tom Gannon's "Israeli Sherman". Concord Armor at War series has a couple good paperbacks 7008 (1) The Wars of 1948-1973. Forget trying to get historic info from Latrun..only way is to go there as you will reveive no reply in English or Hebrew. I have friends in the 188th Barak Bde, but they are busy on the Syrian and Egyptian borders now and have no time.

_________________
avatar
karel47
Regular
Regular

Aantal berichten : 726
Woonplaats : ninove belgium

Terug naar boven Ga naar beneden

Re: 1/16 FO M51 Tamiya HVSS Supersherman

Bericht van karel47 op vr 12 jul 2013 - 17:55

1. deze gaat het worden, wat kleine aanpassingen lijken me goed te doen oftewel gaan voor een easy eight conversie, de muffle is dan toch in beide gevallen niet correct

M50

2. of den deze deze calliote komt overeen met de tamiya en de juiste muffle ... de body rondschuren lijkt me nog de makkelijkste optie

M51 105mm

zou hele unieke tamiya worden dan , de vraag is juist in welk jaar hij afgeraakt he gasten ... :cool Shocked Very Happy Smile Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

filmpje van de commander en zn verzameling IDF tanks


_________________
avatar
karel47
Regular
Regular

Aantal berichten : 726
Woonplaats : ninove belgium

Terug naar boven Ga naar beneden

Re: 1/16 FO M51 Tamiya HVSS Supersherman

Bericht van karel47 op vr 12 jul 2013 - 18:03

paar tamiya filmkes over de M51 supersherman met 105mm kanon !!!






de tamiya body zou toch mogen behouden worden mits kleine aanpassingen zou hij dan toch niet zo verkeerd zijn pfff geraak er nog is wijs uit he  Shocked  Shocked  Shocked

_________________
avatar
karel47
Regular
Regular

Aantal berichten : 726
Woonplaats : ninove belgium

Terug naar boven Ga naar beneden

Re: 1/16 FO M51 Tamiya HVSS Supersherman

Bericht van karel47 op vr 12 jul 2013 - 18:10

Binnenkort IDF gevechtsgroep by Btb Razz Mad Laughing 

_________________
avatar
karel47
Regular
Regular

Aantal berichten : 726
Woonplaats : ninove belgium

Terug naar boven Ga naar beneden

Re: 1/16 FO M51 Tamiya HVSS Supersherman

Bericht van karel47 op vr 12 jul 2013 - 18:14






deze zou de juiste uitvoering zijn die je kan toepassen op de tamiya M51 FO kit


The kit
Contrary to the 1/35, the 1/16 ( #56032) does not represent any M51 that has existed, or at least not seen in pictures or book references. Besides the accessories and storage boxes configuration is wrong or inexistent for some items. Nevertheless, the turret is a faithful representation of the real thing and needs just a few minor additions.

Kit errors:
Here a list that shows why it is not possible to build a faithful representation of the M51 starting from the Tamiya kit without including major modifications:

The upper hull is A3 and is correct for a welded M51. The HVSS (Horizontal Volute Spring Suspension ) suspension is correct, but the engine of the M51 was changed and all the engine deck is wrong. I do not think that there has been a M51 with radial engine and the engine deck represented in the Tamiya kit is mistaken. Obviously, they only used the old M4 mold.

The so visible and big travel lock at the back in the M51, is not supplied with the kit.

The typical storage boxes used in the M50 and M51 have been poorly reproduced; they look like the wooden ration boxes the Americans M4 and M26 had, used in other kits.

The jerry can holder frames are not provided and only 3 jerry cans are included while the M51 used 7, besides they are different to the ones used in the American tanks.

All the rear panel even the engine access doors…etc are wrong or inexistent.

This is basically what is bad and is quite a lot, but still there are minor details I had to add as I went along.


There were many versions of the Sherman, however, the last modification the Israelis made on them, is to my liking, the most showy and the one that converted a WWII tank into one of the 60 and 70 decades. I’ll not extend in describing the history of the M51, there’s a lot of information in books and internet, just enough to say that, as well as the M50, there were so many variants, that it’s recommended to build one tank in particular if you look for historical accuracy. As is my custom….I didn’t do so and just made generic versions that could have really existed.

http://www.modelersite.com/en/2040/building-an-accurate-m51-isherman-from-the-tamiya-rc-kit-1-16-scale

_________________
avatar
karel47
Regular
Regular

Aantal berichten : 726
Woonplaats : ninove belgium

Terug naar boven Ga naar beneden

Re: 1/16 FO M51 Tamiya HVSS Supersherman

Bericht van karel47 op vr 12 jul 2013 - 18:21

the real thing :






_________________
avatar
karel47
Regular
Regular

Aantal berichten : 726
Woonplaats : ninove belgium

Terug naar boven Ga naar beneden

Re: 1/16 FO M51 Tamiya HVSS Supersherman

Bericht van Bas op vr 12 jul 2013 - 18:35

Knappe kit, die staat op m'n lijstje na de leopard - maar die moet eerst klaar zijn, natuurlijk.

Wel weer uitvoerig research gedaan hé Karel - me like!
avatar
Bas
Beyond salvation
Beyond salvation

Aantal berichten : 2647
Woonplaats : Edegem

Terug naar boven Ga naar beneden

Re: 1/16 FO M51 Tamiya HVSS Supersherman

Bericht van Nobody op vr 12 jul 2013 - 18:56

Veel detail blijkbaar.

Nice.

N

avatar
Nobody
Addict
Addict

Aantal berichten : 875
Woonplaats : Brakel

Terug naar boven Ga naar beneden

Re: 1/16 FO M51 Tamiya HVSS Supersherman

Bericht van karel47 op vr 12 jul 2013 - 21:23

moet nu nog beginnen bouwen, die IDF tanks zijn zooitje, daar het toen oorlog was werd er nogal veel geresearched maar weinig documentatie van, er werd op vele forums beweerd dat tamiya het mis had met de toren en body ... de foto's echter bewijzen het tegendeel ... er is wel wat upgrade work aan maar daar doen we het voor ... iedereen klaagt over detail maar aeromate bracht een bijna perfecte metaal tiger I uit niemand kocht hem omdat hij 1800 euro koste ... ik kocht deze omdat het koopje was 400 euro is géén geld voor deze staat makkelijk 700 euro in shops en meer ... en tamiya levert digitaal geluid en multi functies ... is gene heng long ... alles in goeie kwaliteit wat wil je nog meer
moet wel gezegd dat de TK22 clark module tamiya inhaald ... klinkt nog beter, hulzen vliegen eruit en erin ... als de boeg 0.30 schiet hoor je de hulzen wegvliegen enz ... deze echter is een gemene panther met zn dodelijk 105mm kanon ziet hij er stoer uit ... verwacht mn kit volgende week thuis, ben wel al goed gedocumenteerd
Kocht ook de Leopard 2A6 als koopje 400€ nieuw in kit van dat familielid daar ben ik nog niet uit wat het wordt, kijk uit naar jouw verdere bouw van je leopard 2 bas Wink Wink

_________________
avatar
karel47
Regular
Regular

Aantal berichten : 726
Woonplaats : ninove belgium

Terug naar boven Ga naar beneden

Re: 1/16 FO M51 Tamiya HVSS Supersherman

Bericht van Gesponsorde inhoud


Gesponsorde inhoud


Terug naar boven Ga naar beneden

Terug naar boven


 
Permissies van dit forum:
Je mag geen reacties plaatsen in dit subforum